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Thrivalism Podcast

Thrivalism: Taxi! Adventures in Building Culture

Thrivalism, a podcast focused on the art of thriving – flourishing and evolving under any conditions.

In this series, you can find out how to create thriving businesses, culture, careers and places. We’ll explore key topics such as: workplace design and build, culture and community, sustainability, and, of course, the future of ‘work’.

Taxi! Adventures in Building Culture

We caught up with Lucy Sunner, Autocab’s Head of Culture.

Having joined Autocab in a newly-appointed role just in time for the company to be bought by Uber, Lucy dives deep into how workplace culture can be created, harnessed and scaled, especially in the tech sector.

She outlines the role of communication, rituals and “non-transactional” interactions in building a cohesive workplace community, looking at how to surmount the challenges around remote and hybrid working models and how to really understand and act on the needs of employees to create a resilient, forward-thinking organisation.

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Lucy Sunner: [00:00:00] I can’t build your culture. I’m not here to say this is culture, this is what we’re doing. It comes from you guys as well. And it is an education thing.

Dieter Wood [00:00:19] Hi and welcome to Thrivalism Interaction’s podcast focused on the art of thriving, flourishing and evolving under any conditions for this episode, we caught up with Lucy Sunner, head of culture at Autocab. Lucy is passionate about the role companies can play in both the success of a company and the lives of individuals. Previously a community manager at We Work, Lucy joined up to cover a particularly interesting time. Just as the pandemic shifted, the teams were working and the company was acquired by Uber. We had a great conversation on the benefits a focus on culture can bring to an organization the importance of rituals and communication, and what advice you give other businesses wanting to harness the power of their own culture. It’s a great chat and I hope you enjoy it. Lucy, welcome to Thrivalism – it’s great you’ve joined us.

Lucy Sunner: [00:01:09] Thanks so much. Thanks for the intro and inviting me along.

Dieter Wood [00:01:13] Good to have you here. So, Lucy, just for audience, explain to us who AutoCab are and also, I mean, how did your career lead you to be head of culture and how is that process gone?

Lucy Sunner: [00:01:25] Gosh, what a journey. What a journey to go on. Well, I’ll kick it off. Like you said yourself, we’ve been going for around over 30 years now. So it’s a well-established company. We actually designed and developed the taxi dispatch software system for taxis across the U.K. We’re also global. So we’re based in in Europe and Australia as well. So we’ve got a nice little team over there, which is quite fun to deal with for me. And I guess we are on quite a fast paced journey, like you mentioned. So we’ve just gone through a bit of an acquisition with Uber, which is so exciting for us. So we’re sort of partnering with Uber and launching a local cab feature on their app. So they’re going to actually utilize our AIGO platform on their app so they can have our customers on the app and people and their customers can book through them. So it’s sort of a long winded way of saying it. But but yeah. So I think Autocar quite well-established. We’ve got over hundred twenty five UK staff and we’ve got around 20 employees in Europe and two in Australia. And my career journey. Well like I said, it’s been a bit of a ride really. I started off in hospitality and I fell into that after university. I love meeting new people. I love chatting. That’s that’s key to what I do. And that’s one of my passions.

So I ended up sort of managing for a large hospitality retailer, I guess, in the UK. And I became a general manager, quite young. And I think from there I was like, hey, hang on a second. I haven’t really explored the world of managed teams, but I would quite like to do a bit of travelling. So as you do, I thought I’d move out to Australia and get my working holiday visa. And I, I ended up getting sponsored out there through hospitality management again. So I was managing a large wedding venue out there in Sydney and I lived out there for about three years and that was so fun. And I think that’s where the basis of my management skills developed. And I was managing very diverse teams as well. So I was getting used to different cultures within that environment, which was so exciting. And then I came back to the UK. I missed my family so much. It’s so far from my mum to come out and see us. So, yeah, we moved back and then I wanted to live in London. So I ended up moving there and getting like a hospitality management job again. But I knew my time in hospitality was sort of over. I knew my passions were slowly dying for that. I’d done it for a number of years. So I wanted to explore new avenues, whether it was in retail or customer service or I think at that point I was a bit lost.

I was like, where can I go from here? And randomly, a girl that I worked with said, Have you ever had we work? And I said, no, no idea. And then I sort of popped online. She said, they’re hiring, that they’re growing at a fast pace. I know you would be a great fit for them. And I went online and it was like this new world of office space and development of little startups that were getting these sort of one person offices and these gorgeous buildings in London. I thought, I really want to try and get involved with this. So I just sent across my CV on the off chance and got a group interview and yeah, I landed a job for them. And that sort of large is building at this time. I think when I started with them, they only had six or seven buildings in London. So it’s really a key part of that growth team for we work at that point. And I was with them in London for about a year and then New Manchester was on the radar for them and opening up two sites there. And there’s one in Springfield and St Peter’s Square in Manchester City Centre. So for me, I wanted to come back up north. Yeah, it just made sense family wise as well. And I said to them, hey, I’d love to go up there and open up your your youwe works in Manchester.

And they said, yep, you’ve been a great employee. So I was the starting team for them across Manchester. And that’s when I delved into sales. That’s when I started getting networking. That’s when I really grew the brand and understood, I guess, the culture of we work at that time. And yeah, from that sort of grew that community. And my role was sort community management. So I was growing. We had over a thousand members within the building that I worked in. So very busy and I love to be busy. I can’t not be so. Yeah, from that. Then I was approached about this role of culture. And for me, growing teams, even when I was in hospitality management, is something that I’ve loved to do and I’ve been successful. I know sweet spots that work. I get different diverse teams. And I thought, you know what? I want to. I want to. Take a step back in that direction I was aiming when I was at work, I was sort of looking at sales a little more, so I wanted to pull back in that area and think, where are my passions? And be a bit selfish about my career journey and head of culture. It sounds like quite a quite a unique role, really. It isn’t. It is so new nowadays, so. Yeah, but that’s where I went for the interview and I got it. So it’s exciting

Dieter Wood [00:06:30] I understand that Uber doing the acquisition suggested that the head of culture role would be useful for AutoCab. So I suppose to kind of put the pieces in that in that journey, how did they receive information and how did they then get their heads around that and think about, you know, the transformations obviously taking place to the point where you on board?

Lucy Sunner: [00:06:55] Yeah, yeah. I think, honestly, for for me to look at an executive team or a board of people that are running a company, these guys, these four guys have been on such a journey with also because they’ve been operating the same way for twenty five, thirty years. And then over this huge tech company that’s growing at a rapid pace to now saying these are the sort of roles that we want you to have in place and then even thinking about culture or what it is, they had no idea whatsoever. I thought, what is this weird role that you’re part of again? And I guess for me, the interview process was very much what do I think they were asking me, what do you think culture is? And they were learning from my experience, when we work and building teams in hospitality and they they really wanted to understand it. They wanted to see how it merged with H.R. as well. So there’s a lot of sort of crossover there, how that’s going to pan out. They wanted me to put together a bit of a plan of how I would investigate our current culture and how I would help that grow rather than coming in and changing it straight away, which I think would have been a bit of a failure for me. Like I really needed to understand where they’re at at the moment. So I’ve been quite lucky, I guess.

So I’ve had a lot of autonomy about how this role goes and they’ve been very open to my suggestions. There’s nothing that’s been spending loads of money or. No, that’s completely the opposite direction of where we want to go. I’ve been quite strategic in the events that I’m putting in place, in the budget that we need and the things that we’re buying for it. And yeah, I think the fact that they’ve given me a lot of trust has made me feel quite positive about our journey and the direction that we’re going. And the other thing that happened was obviously we were in the middle of a pandemic. So that was a good how are you going to do this in a pandemic? But I’d love a challenge. So I just thought, yeah, I’ll take it. And we work. I had a bit of experience doing meetings, virtually everyone sort. It’s a global global employees there. So for me, I was like, you know what, I can do this. I know I can do it. But yeah, it’s been, I guess, sort of a bit of a convincing journey for them, like sort of saying to them, but this is what I’m going to do and this is the outcome of of what’s going to happen from that, or these are things we’re going to take from it and grow and build into our culture.

Dieter Wood [00:09:20] Yes. I’m really interested how you I mean, business, which is completely successful, been going a long time. And I mean, it has a culture whether or not they recognise that because of the way they run the business, but of course, as a culture and that culture has bred some success. So how do you how do you extract what the culture is? How do you make sure you stay true to the roots of it, but also allow it to scale? And I suppose, you know, we talked a little bit about the management there, but equally like the team, like, did they understand what you were coming to do? They receptive to it or did they feel that they were being invested in?

Lucy Sunner: [00:09:56] It was really, really daunting. I mean, I’m not someone to shy away from change of. I’ve always been sort of an implementer and a manager of growing teams. So I quite like leading. And it was clear in this role it needed someone strong who will you know, there’s going to be knock back. So I was keen on that. I knew that the business had been operating for a long time the way it had. I knew they were they were going to go through a lot of change. So it was a good time to join. But first things first, what I did was just get in there and just say, hey, I’m jumping onto this video call today or hey, can I jump into the stand up today? I’d love to just introduce myself or just sit in and see what you’re working on or how you guys interact. And you’ve got to be quite forceful in how you do things. A lot of people are like, oh, God, what’s this? What’s this woman doing? Her daughter, what she is. But it’s almost, you know, making people not feel nervous and say, you know, I want to get to want to understand who autoharp are. And the first thing I found out is that previously it was a family run business. So this this idea of family has trickled down into every area of. Also, cap, and it was such a gorgeous story that is coming from and the journey that they’ve been on the growth.

So I knew there was a lot of people that were very passionate as people that have been there for for over 15, 20 years. And I’ve come from a background where it’s very flexible with people coming in and out the door. So it was it was a bit of an eye opener. I was like, wow, you’ve been here for 20 years and you know that journey. But it’s those people that I sort of wanted to have those one on ones with and say, how’s your time? And auto also. Tell me about how you started. So I’ve just made time to get to know everybody on a level and that family aspect. I wanted to continue with the culture that that now as we grow, so we call ourselves the Autocar family. When we do things like we do a monthly standup, we have a welcome to the auto family section where we do all the new starters and we do an interesting fact about them and and things like that. And I think that will grow. And and the story of Auto Cab and the journey they’ve been at, that needs to be told now, even for new starters, as we continue or we drip through the feed that into events or discussion of events that I do as well. So that was my main thing

Dieter Wood [00:12:16] I can say when you kind of were trying to understand those values and the principles that how they work, what you presented, those I’m guessing you would present the fact that this is the direction we’re going. Yeah. Did it. Is it something that you found easy to get people to recognize or was it kind of a bit more of a challenge for you to recognize?

Lucy Sunner: [00:12:38] Yeah, I asked for a lot of advice, I guess. I think I spoke to a lot of different departments within Auto Cab and I said, you know, values wise, that’s something that we’ve worked on and I’ve launched since being in this role as well for auto camp. I think within the first month I said, look, this is what I want to do. I want to launch some values, but I need to get to know the business and see what works. So I did a lot with with the team. And I think that’s essential when you are launching values is why you’ve got to take a lot of inspiration from what they’re doing. And then it was the presentation to the the board at the time, which I was so nervous about. So I thought, gosh, I’m telling you about your company and how it looks to me, you know, a, you start. So that’s quite nerve wracking. And what I said to them was, these are ones that I’ve seen and not all of them. I see them performed all the time that I’ve been within this month, but I see them there and they’re bubbling away.

We just need we just need to nurture them. We need to grow them. So, you know, one of our values is collaborative. Collaborative is a great one for us because we have so many different departments. That’s how we develop our products. We have research and development team that work quite closely to support. And that’s how they they grow our products and get feedback. But there’s areas that can grow there. You know, I see other teams that don’t communicate with many others within the business. And I think, OK, how could it benefit them if they were talking to sales, for example, what could they learn from sales? And there’s so much that they could all learn from each other. So I sort of said to the board, you know, they’re a work in progress. And I think they got that. And they wanted it as an introduction to values in general. And I think that to put together other company values that have been launched, as well as a way to say, you know, this this is good, this is a blueprint for for our for our team. This is how we should go.

Dieter Wood [00:14:27] So I know where we speak to people who have similar roles. There’s this challenge that they have that they become the curator of the culture. And how do you stop it being the kind of Lusi culture that true to me? How do you check in that everybody’s comfortable you’re doing and understands, I suppose, what you’re doing and understands the progress

Lucy Sunner: 00:14:50] By a massive can be on communication. I can’t tell you like I, I sometimes think, what am I being a bit psycho, am I over communicating? But I genuinely think it’s benefited every single one of those employees keeping up to date with what’s going on, getting feedback, getting those pulse checks, I call them. You know, every month we’ll send our own needs to a maximum of five and five questions. And that I can gain a lot back from that from the team. How I stop it being the Lucy show is I really want to try and get other employees to try and run events. You know, that’s the main thing. So we’ve done a lot of sort of these fireside chat events, which are quite popular at the moment. So I’ve actually got other people to run them. Oh, it’s fireside chat with two two employees of auto camp and we’re going to learn about their passions today. And it’s putting the onus back on them and say you guys are part of the culture, too. And it’s something that I’ve sort of said in every single stand up. I can’t build your culture. I’m not here to say this is culture. This is what we’re doing. It comes from you guys as well. And it’s it’s an education thing. You know, a lot of people don’t understand this role. So little sort of education. Pieces of providing a bit of a quote on what culture is a very positive quote and discussing that with the whole team and I think, yeah, I’ve had, uh, I’ve had some good feedback so far, so it’s good to see it grow.

Dieter Wood [00:16:16] So you’ve talked about post service at you, wretched fireside chats. And I mean, they’re really good tools, I suppose. I’m interested to how you use those posters. Do you ask the same questions every month old you, you and just use that as a sense check? And I suppose how did the other tools and activities that you use to fit in? I suppose what could people take from that?

Lucy Sunner: [00:16:40] Yeah, I think one thing’s for sure. What I do is every month I sit down and think, OK, event planner, what am I doing? And events or, you know, what am I doing culture wise? And I know every month I’m going to send this pulse check. I want to be doing one event a week, whether it’s even just like a breakfast group chat where anybody can join and we just have a get together and a cup of tea. If it’s a fireside chat for Mental Health Awareness Week, whatever it is, I want to try and keep that connection with everybody. And I want them to feel happy about joining these events. So that’s what I do. I set out a bit of a timetable for myself, post check wise. How I launched it was doing different questions. So I originally as changed as you can imagine, everything changes. So originally started thinking, OK, I’ll do a different topic each month. And I thought I’ll do five questions each time. And then I thought, no, maybe it needs to be a similar topic or I just need to do two questions per month. And I’ve recently there’s that there’s a platform that I launched called Bonacelli, which is a recognition platform, and they’ve just got a new feature called Signals, which is pulse check surveys and have one for me. Bonacelli is the culture platform. So I want to try and incorporate everything through there.

So it’s a pulse check survey and I’ve started doing the same questions each month and it’s just four to five questions and it’s sensory that Bonacelli platform and it integrates with our outlook. So it’s quite easy to fill out. I mean, the engagement wise has been quite difficult. That’s been challenging. But I think as people have started to trust me and they get what I say I’m going to do, I’m not just here just for, like fun events. There’s a lot more that we’re trying to work on. I’ve seen that engagement rise month by month, and it’s that sort that reporting on those sort of surveys is what I give to my executive team. And we can sort of always have a chat around what what did this comment mean? Or, you know, we’re averaging a three out of five. What what areas can we improve in? And again, overly communicating on everything. I sort of put together a plan. This is what I’m going to be working on in June. And then we go back to that and we say, OK, what hasn’t worked, what has worked? And it’s very much trial and error. So much about trial and error. The can’t you can’t take anything personally. And I think that’s something I’ve learned as well in my career, but mostly in this role as well.

Dieter Wood [00:19:08] It sounds like you talked a lot about the communication between the teams and that being a really important thing, because the culture is there, it’s strong. It’s just about making it kind of unified, I suppose. Yeah. And what did you do specifically around getting different departments, different people talking to each other? I mean, really challenging it. It’s hard because we’ve seen more separate than ever. Yeah.

Lucy Sunner: [00:19:31] Gosh, that was such a battle. And I thought, how am I going to integrate with all these different teams and how are these people that they only speak to two or three people per day and they don’t understand what our customer care department do? How are we going to do this? But what we did was something called ten talks. And that was honestly one of the best things that that we featured as a company. So how it works is every week I schedule in like a thirty minute session and I randomly pick six employees across all the areas and the executive team are included in that myself, whoever. And then we just said we have a catch up. There is structure involved in it because I think everybody needs a little bit of structure. These things can be awkward if you’re just jumping into a random call. So I sort of started with an icebreaker question. So, you know, what’s your favorite color and why? Or just something really simple that people can just get behind. And that’s when the chat starts flowing. But I would also integrate a bit of our work aspect. And it wasn’t just about fun. I wanted to know, what are you working on at the moment? You know, and what was quite nice is I remember one week we had two people in a session and they’ve been working in the office for about ten years each and they’ve never said hello to each other. And the office isn’t you know, it’s not huge. It’s a one hundred person office. And you think you can go to the same work every day and you haven’t even just said hello. And I thought, wow, that’s that’s incredible.

Dieter Wood [00:20:58] Did you think that the often we find, I suppose, that the leadership team have a different impact? Of how much liberty communicates with each other then that, you know, kind of like the people who are working there because of the way that communication lines run. Is that something you found it all together?

Lucy Sunner: [00:21:15] One hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I think because, like I said, I’ve been quite open with when I was being hired, I think the executive team that hired me, they didn’t understand it and they were open about that. They said, you know, we want you to come on board, you want me to help. But I think they sort of had it as a she’ll be doing all the events and they didn’t really see what culture was. And I think, like you said, when when people are managing up, you know, it’s it’s it’s hard to do that sometimes. And I think that there is a little bit of that. And Autocar people are nervous about sharing things as as I’ve been like that as well with my managers. And they don’t really see what’s going on in the departments. And what has been amazing is that I guess I’ve been that connection between the two and it’s just getting both areas to trust me, but also being professional about how I report those things to the executive team and and giving them a solution to how we fix it or, you know, it’s going to take time and giving them a time frame as well.

Dieter Wood [00:22:16] Do you think you’re better now at recognizing if you work in other tech businesses or the fast scaling businesses? Are you better now recognizing the signs or the stages or whatever is where the role of head of culture becomes really, really important or the personalities of the people involved? Is that something that you think now you can identify much more easily in another business organization?

Lucy Sunner: [00:22:40] I think so, yeah. And I think what’s been quite nice is just having, like I said, so much autonomy and it’s allowed me to sort of learn at my own pace. There’s been no pressure to say you need to perform at this rate. And I guess, yeah, I think sort of really honing in on on the culture. And that first month was so essential for me just to get to know, you know, for me as well. What is culture? What is it that makes it tick? I know that I’ve done it before in previous roles, but it was time for me to focus on that. So I think definitely this role has allowed me to do that. Yeah.

Dieter Wood [00:23:14] So so, I mean, I’m thinking somebody might be listening to this and thinking, how do I recognize that? I then if I recognize it, I don’t know where you sit in your business that you just completely depart. How are you part of operations? You know, where would you put that person to give them that spread?

Lucy Sunner [00:23:34] So I sit within the marketing team and I think mainly the reason for that is because of internal communications and the marketing team have been fantastic so far. And that that really great support, if I ever need help with any concern or, you know, if they’ve got events going on, what can I share? What can’t I? So it works quite nicely for me in that team. And my sort of direct manager is part of the executive team. So, yeah, I guess I sort of have more of a direct line of communication with with sort of the the bosses of the business, I guess. But I don’t catch up with them, you know, every week, let’s say, or be sort of every month or I’ll jump into a court and they’ll say, hey, can you jump into our call today? And it’s just give me an update. How are you doing? How are the events doing? What can we help you with? What what how are the values getting on? Is there anything that we can give you content wise? So it’s been a really great experience with that. And I think I’ve got the right line of communication with them in order for them to understand the direction I want to take and for me to understand is it right for them? Because at the end of the day, you know, we’ve got to work in partnership. So, yeah, it’s been good.

Dieter Wood [00:24:45] So it’s doing the pandemic. You guys have been growing quite a lot. You must have unboarded quite a few new members of the team who I don’t know how many of you have ever met face to face and how you’ve dealt with their own body. And I suppose are you hiring more widely outside of Manchester, I suppose. How is that going to affect the way you do your role going forward? I mean, because there’s a real opportunity there, isn’t it? But there was a challenge around, you know, do talented individuals perform as well? You know, when you put a team together, it’s all about the collective output, isn’t it?

Lucy Sunner [00:25:20] Yeah. Yeah, we have grown. Yeah. We’ve hired over sort of forty staff within within the pandemic. So, yeah, it’s been a bit of an eye opener. I guess we’ve really sort of honed in on our onboarding and how we do that and they never really fine tuned Autocar up. It was always very sort of our TORKEL department heads would lead it. So I’ve said, look, I would like to be in charge of it because this is where anybody on board we need to inject our culture straight away and have them understand it, especially if they’re virtual. So we do like a welcome week now. They have a welcome on the stand. So I guess that that has been a key area of ensuring that those people feel like they’re part of the team, I guess. And it’s a good way to link people up. Virtually no on teams, like I say, drop into this call if you want, and I guess that go between. So that’s been nice.

Dieter Wood [00:26:11] And with that change you’re seeing as you’ve been remote, you have an office as you did obviously at some point. Let’s hope we could all come back to pieces and start to see each other. But you know how from a culture point of view will you deal with, I suppose, that more hybrid working model, which lots of people are expecting if there are people who will be very remote or virtual only? And I suppose looking then at kind of the challenge of some people having face to face relationships and being bonded in that office, of other people being more remote. And, yeah, this is a challenge I think people all over the place are now realizing is going to be quite tough.

Lucy Sunner: [00:26:54] Oh, gosh. Yeah. And it’s it’s a mammoth task for whoever’s whoever’s in charge of bringing everybody back. I feel you. But yeah. So I, I think previously said we’re looking to grow. Yes, we are looking to grow globally. We are going to be doing a hybrid model moving forward. We are going to be extending our sort of recruitment to different countries. And one of my tasks is how do someone how does someone in the office get the same experience as someone at home? And I’m not going to I think auto companies are a very good position because they previously to the pandemic, though, were very much office based. It was Monday to Friday, nine to five. That’s how it works. Everybody’s had to get used to technology as a form of communication. And we’re slowly we’re slowly getting there with that. Everybody’s got used to meeting new people and new starters and managing teams virtually as well. And we’re getting used to that. We’ve been acquired by Uber, which is a huge change. So the whole of the team know that there is a change, that there is going to be a change moving forward. They can see sort of more structure being implemented. So for me, I feel very confident in the fact that the way that the teams handle the change so far, I feel like that they understand the journey a little bit more of where we’re going. So we’re in a good position with that. And I think, yeah, you know, I don’t think they had a bad culture before when they were in the office. So when we do go back, I think there is going to be that sort of culture, but it’s going to be exciting. Everybody’s going to see each other. It’s just about ensuring, I guess, those new starters fell apart, the team at the same time, which is going to be very hard to manage.

Dieter Wood [00:28:34] I think one of the challenges sometimes with those like office environments isn’t that they they by their very nature of being a physical space, they create the culture. So a team who will sit next to each other, they have to be more bonded, the team who sit on another floor or something like that. And there’s a danger, of course, you go back to the old environment. And you think, oh, OK, that really just goes back to their old ways again, because virtual communication is a great leveler, isn’t it, of location and role? And also, I think it removes barriers of like private offices and things like that. It can be really, really good. But equally, you know, you’ve got to kind of embrace that. People do want to see each other face to face. And I think then the challenge is, do you end up with two separate cultures? So I think

Lucy Sunner: [00:29:20] That’s going to be hard to manage for sure. And so the one thing that I didn’t say is actually we are looking at having a different design in the office or, you know, just opening it up, not having everybody sit at their desks, spots and having more meeting rooms and breakout spaces and sort of chill out areas where people can catch up and have a meeting. And that’s that’s very key. I think you’ve got to have the right atmosphere for that to happen. And also, I keep saying to everybody, gosh, if we all went back in now, it would be so noisy when you’re doing a meeting because there’s no sort private spaces in the office at the moment. So and they’re all like, yeah, I don’t think I could do it at all, but, you know, in my office at home and it’s something to think about for sure.

Dieter Wood [00:30:02] Yeah, definitely. No, it’s going to it’s going to be really, really interesting for so many businesses that it’s all happening, isn’t it? The next few weeks there’s going to be for many people is a massive appetite to go back and suddenly those changes are going to get pushed on everybody really, really quickly. It’s going to be a fascinating time, I suppose. Yeah. So just to kind of I’ve got to ask you a question, just in terms of you. I mean, you’ve been in this role for like a year. You’ve been focused on it. What do you think? You know, what do you think people are getting wrong about? Kind of like not fostering this kind of role? What are people just allowing to happen? And in terms of what are they? I suppose the question is really what did they recognize in themselves, whether what I need to actually actively think about this?

Lucy Sunner [00:30:54] Gosh, that’s a good question, isn’t it? I think it’s just for me, I guess the level how how your teams are communicating is is one thing. So you really need to look at how they’re communicating the how products. For us, it was about sort of time management and time efficiency. So one thing that my executive team said is we want work done on time. You know, a lot of people are saying they’re going to have it done next week and it just gets pushed back and pushed back. And I said that’s an area for development. So for me, you know, culture is involved with that. You know, how can we help? Is it about how you communicate to that certain person? Is it that we need to look at how your language and how you’re communicating that? So I guess it’s looking at. Yeah, the time time management for the team as well as communication. If people are having fun, that’s the main thing as well. And then sharing, you know, that they they they want to hang out with their team members. Were there five days of the week, if not more, some time. So we want to enjoy it. We want to have fun how your teams are. You know, if you are in a period of growth as a company, are you attracting the right talent? You know, that’s one area that we’re looking at in the moment. So I’m developing the recruitment process. We want to get that really cool talent through and be really diverse. At the same time, you know, we’re focusing on employing more women, women in the business at the moment. So that’s an area where I think you need to think, well, maybe I do need someone looking at my culture a little bit and I need to think or just, I don’t know, someone shouting about your culture and saying, this is who we are and being excited about it and driving it forward. So, yeah, I’d say that really.

Dieter Wood [00:32:38] Well, that’s good. The two things I take for that is. Yeah. Child to be proud about your culture. Yeah. And also do people think about when they’re thinking about problems and issues in their business and they’re thinking about process and workflows. Are they laying a culture as a part of the solution and are they thinking about how that would change the way that people connect that? That’s definitely really, really interesting. I wish I could talk to you all day, Lucy. Yeah. It’s such a fascinating transformation that you guys are going through. Yeah, it’s a really interesting business and your passion to kind of make it a really great place for people to work. It really comes through. So thank thank you for joining us. It’s really good to see you.

Lucy Sunner: [00:33:19] Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

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